New Holden V6 225kw!

sleekism · 01-07-2007, 05:37 PM

I heard from a mate that is strong Holden supporter that Holden (or HSV) is planning to release a naturally aspirated 225kw V6 Holden to coincide with the release of the new Falcon in 2008.

Apparently the new Holden will be using the Alloytec V6 but with higher compression and direct port injection. the engine is supposed to be the same one as in the 2008 Cadillac CTS with 225kw@6300rpm and 369nm@5200rpm.

Can anyone confirm this? The torque figure seems pretty crappy indicating a VERY peaky engine but if Holden releases this and the new GTSR then Ford is in big trouble.

Ives · 01-07-2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I heard from a mate that is strong Holden supporter that Holden (or HSV)........

HSV Commodore S?

**TUF_302** · 01-07-2007, 05:42 PM

Aint Holden always over do it, they can never seem to get a good amount of torque out of any of there v6s!

Yellow_Festiva · 01-07-2007, 05:43 PM

Well it is possible. The same engine is used in an Alfa, but in 3.2l capacity and it makes almost the same output at the current 3.6 in the Omega. I'm not exactly sure of the firgures for the 3.2 and the 3.6 but they were VERY close.

So I'm assuming this was done by Alfa by a tune and perhaps some minor hardware enhancements. So if the same was done to the 3.6 then 225kw would be within reach.

XR8-260 · 01-07-2007, 05:51 PM

They should make this engine standard in the SV6

:. Maybe ford will release a more powerful orion XR6.

**TUF_302** · 01-07-2007, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3

They should make this engine standard in the SV6

:. Maybe ford will release a more powerful orion XR6.

Hope they do make the XR6 more powerful than the XT.

ED Classic · 01-07-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

Can anyone confirm this? The torque figure seems pretty crappy indicating a VERY peaky engine but if Holden releases this and the new GTSR then Ford is in big trouble.

In big trouble??

All reports are that the base model Falcon will have 200+ kw with Std 6 Auto and probably 395-400nm @ 3500rpm so I dont think Ford will worry and all that with the promise of better than current fuel consumption. If this engine is released it will be in an S or Calais and then ford have the Turbo engine in that segmant of which reprtadley will have 260kw and if so probably 500+nm so I dont think they are in big trouble.

As for the GTSR, I would love to see a simmilar FPV which would probably need a blown 5.4 to make huge power, and I think we will within 18-24 months but, in reality its not a volume market and it wont determine the end of Ford. How it impacts the 60-75k market is more of a concern and where it would help HSV considerably would be that some of the parts off the GTS-R would make an easy fit on the Clubsport and GTS when they need a quick power fix with proven and tested parts. Its one luxury I wish FPV had with their V8's that they dont but they do with the 4.0 Turbo. Expect 290-300KW Typhoon in the next model with 570+ NM.

XR8-260 · 01-07-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Well it is possible. The same engine is used in an Alfa, but in 3.2l capacity and it makes almost the same output at the current 3.6 in the Omega. I'm not exactly sure of the firgures for the 3.2 and the 3.6 but they were VERY close.

So I'm assuming this was done by Alfa by a tune and perhaps some minor hardware enhancements. So if the same was done to the 3.6 then 225kw would be within reach.

Yes, 225kw from 3.6L is easily within reach imo. BMW's na 3.0L produces 195kw which gives a specific output of 65kw/Litre.

ED Classic · 01-07-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVO_XR6

Hope they do make the XR6 more powerful than the XT.

Even another 10kw would be nice although in all honesty I think those days are gone unless you buy Turbo.

MoreHPformyXR6 · 01-07-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVO_XR6

Hope they do make the XR6 more powerful than the XT.

I said this heaps b4 I think its a must do for zford even if its just for marketing purposes that the XR6 NA have atleast a handfull more kw than the XT. It just makes good business sense to do so IMHO.

Rollin · 01-07-2007, 06:25 PM

Oh Noes!!! Teh holdenz have more powah V6 then teh Fordz! They must be much better to drive!!!111one

burnz · 01-07-2007, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollin

Oh Noes!!! Teh holdenz have more powah V6 then teh Fordz! They must be much better to drive!!!111one

sorry for my arrogance but WHAT? english pls

AWD Chaser · 01-07-2007, 06:52 PM

225kw? So What. 25 more kw doesn't mean anything... the AU-BA increase from 157 to 185 was worth talking about.

I think Holden are gonna over spend with the GTS-R though, unless its a research/benchmark thing for something in the US backed by GM...

But Ford can just whack a Super or turbo on the Boss 5.4 and people will go for it. Prob more fuel efficiant then a 7L anyway.

Steffo · 01-07-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

225kw? So What. 25 more kw doesn't mean anything... the AU-BA increase from 157 to 185 was worth talking about.

Nice bit of incorrect information there...

AU to BA was 157 to 182kW, a 25kW jump. So why was that worth talking about, but the VE going from 195kW to 225kW (30kW jump) isn't worth talking about because?

**Falcon Coupe** · 01-07-2007, 07:04 PM

A poll asking a hypothetical question based on hearsay....

:

**Fordman1** · 01-07-2007, 07:05 PM

Direct Injection will add more cost to Commodore. I suspect it'll be offered on high end & sports models only. They won't be able to add it as std to the Omega etc.

Holden would be stupid not to do something to blunt the launch of Orion & this is there best chance as the "old I6 boat anchor" gives their 'high tech V6" a bath everytime !

Remember they may be outselling Ford but they are NOT selling what they budgeted for and they are in trouble financially because of it.

$1 bill car ? Sounds like they blew a lot of money on things that weren't product related to me.

Surely Ford have DI on the cards also (maybe in a couple of years ?), if it's not in Orion.

burnz · 01-07-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

225kw? So What. 25 more kw doesn't mean anything... the AU-BA increase from 157 to 185 was worth talking about.

I think Holden are gonna over spend with the GTS-R though, unless its a research/benchmark thing for something in the US backed by GM...

But Ford can just whack a Super or turbo on the Boss 5.4 and people will go for it. Prob more fuel efficiant then a 7L anyway.

the 7.0 is more efficient than you think

phillyc · 01-07-2007, 07:13 PM

Would be amazed in Holden took more than 2 years from now to release the Direct Injection version which is available in the US Cadillacs.

As a general rule, DI offers about 15% more power, 10% more torque and economy improvement of 10%. If tuned solely for additional economy then the improvement is about 15-17%.

I am seriously hoping that Ford introduce DI on the Orion 6, even if it starts off in the XR and/or Ghia level. Then works it's way down. It's available in the Ford PAG's Volvo and Range Rover 3.2L straight six motor (released in the last 12months). No reason why Ford's DI can't be shared here too.

PS Yay, my 100th post!

AWD Chaser · 01-07-2007, 07:20 PM

Too much beer and not enough thinking.

The VE sounds a bit like Windows Vista. It gets talked up as this fantastic product, but at realease doesn't really impress as much as first thought, then they keep adding bits on down the line that they couldn't jam in intime for the initial release (eg. DI, Cylinder deactivation, etc.)

Rollin · 01-07-2007, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

sorry for my arrogance but WHAT? english pls

Sorry. I'll spell it out for you.

Italics were intended to indicate sarcasm.

I said "Oh no, holden have more power than ford, that must make them SO much better"

And inferred by said italics and post that we should all think it's the end of the world and that Ford could never compete with the 'massive' power of the V6.

merlin · 01-07-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I heard from a mate that is strong Holden supporter that Holden (or HSV) is planning to release a naturally aspirated 225kw V6 Holden to coincide with the release of the new Falcon in 2008.

Apparently the new Holden will be using the Alloytec V6 but with higher compression and direct port injection. the engine is supposed to be the same one as in the 2008 Cadillac CTS with 225kw@6300rpm and 369nm@5200rpm.

Can anyone confirm this? The torque figure seems pretty crappy indicating a VERY peaky engine but if Holden releases this and the new GTSR then Ford is in big trouble.

Why would Ford be worried? We have the XR6T - Holden have nothing to compete against it at all, 225kw and some weedy torque dosn't even begin to compete with the turbo 6 in its current tune let alone Orion tune.

Rollin · 01-07-2007, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Why would Ford be worried? We have the XR6T - Holden have nothing to compete against it at all, 225kw and some weedy torque dosn't even begin to compete with the turbo 6 in its current tune let alone Orion tune.

Amen to that

[IMG]hxxp://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p148/Rollinfourlitre/HPi6.gif[/IMG]

XR8Master · 01-07-2007, 07:58 PM

What the hell is with everyone saying ford will "HAVE" to add forced induction so that they can get more power, do any of you people know about engines ? you could easily get 350-400kw out of a boss 5.4, you dont have to supercharge to get more power

XR8-260 · 01-07-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Why would Ford be worried? We have the XR6T - Holden have nothing to compete against it at all, 225kw and some weedy torque dosn't even begin to compete with the turbo 6 in its current tune let alone Orion tune.

I don't think Holden intends an n/a V6 to compete with the mighty XR6 turbo. I reckon it'll be competing with the orion atmo XR6 instead. I'm only speculating though. The SV6 needs some decent performance to back up its show pony looks. The "new" 225kw engine will certainly deliver.

sleekism · 01-07-2007, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Why would Ford be worried? We have the XR6T - Holden have nothing to compete against it at all, 225kw and some weedy torque dosn't even begin to compete with the turbo 6 in its current tune let alone Orion tune.

May have over reacted a bit considering the 225kw "High Feature" direct injection V6 has pathetic torque figures (my good old Mont makes more torque at 2000rpm lower than this engine)

:

Ford seems to have such a stranglehold on the performance six market it's a wonder why others haven't cashed in. I mean Holdens history is filled with performance sixes and up until recently they had a healthy range of supercharged sixes.
I remember reading ages ago in Wheels that Holden was bringing the supercharged Commodore back and what happened to the supercharged Aurion and 380?

BTW apparently GM still produces the Buick V6 aka Ecotec V6 which is interesting as I have met many Holden drivers who reckon the Ecotec was better than the Alloytec.

MethodX · 01-07-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollin

Amen to that

But..
Ford is the V8 company.
Now your all turbo boys?

For shame.

Auslandau · 01-07-2007, 08:41 PM

Those with the most KW sells the most cars!!!!!! Thank god they made the 308kw Corolla and Camry or they would also be in trouble!

| [/url] |

ED Classic · 01-07-2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR8Master

What the hell is with everyone saying ford will "HAVE" to add forced induction so that they can get more power, do any of you people know about engines ? you could easily get 350-400kw out of a boss 5.4, you dont have to supercharge to get more power

It will be a 350-400kw pig which has to be revved even more than the current 290 to deleiver its power and thats saying something. One of the reasons the factory 5.4s with that much power in the US have been blown and one of the reason Ford are strongly rumoured to have an all new V8 in the pipeline for Orion MK2. I dont think Ford are keen For a Ferrari style V8 that revves behond 8000 rpm

ED Classic · 01-07-2007, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

A poll asking a hypothetical question based on hearsay....

:

True....I agree

Iphido · 01-07-2007, 08:52 PM

The regular V8 will be dropped with orion.

The V8 will continue with XR8 and FPV's.

Ford is able to match 225kw with the I6. Slightly higher compression, direct injection, improve cams and timming, better exhaust, intake. Power would be higher up the rev range, but at around 6,000 rpm.

But I think the next incarnation of the falcon I6 will see 205-210kw which is good enough to fend off a slightly more powerful V6, with one less gear.

This also helps explain why the regular V8 is being dropped. The SOHC V8 would need a lot of work, direct injection would be even more expensive, being a V and with 8 cylinders, again, the 24 valve head would be a limitation as well.

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