LTD won't start

peterban · 29-01-2009, 09:50 PM

I have searched and can't find an exact answer.
The LTD ( V8 ) is no longer reliable as it will only start when it wants to.
It can go 3 days starting every go and then all of a sudden won't start.
When I put the key in and it won't start I turn the key and all lights on the dash come on and those that are supposed to go off including the immobiliser light go off but all I get is a click of a relay I do notice a circle with an exclamation mark does come on and go off as I turn the key to the start position and then back.
The battery has been checked and easily passed. The charge rate has also been checked and passed.
All cables have been checked an re-tightened.
When the car decides to start it starts and runs perfectly.

Note that the click is definitely a relay and not the click click of the solenoid when the battery is flat. The relay is under the bonnet and I have swapped them around to no avail.
I also tried banging the dash near the left side of the steering column just in case it was the BEM.

Tried the lights on and when I try to start the lights stay on bright with no dimming whatsoever.
I also tried the transmission selector from P to N but again no go.

I don't think it is the selector because if I leave it overnight it has started the next morning without touching anything.
I have left it all day today and it still won't start so I am not sure what else to try.
Anyone had the same sort of problem??
Anything else I can try?

IH8HSV · 29-01-2009, 11:24 PM

Is there any pattern when it doesnt start?

Everytime it chooses not to start is the moter cold or warm? ( or both ?).

danny277 · 29-01-2009, 11:28 PM

I have an au,that does the same thing.Mine is the park an neutral switch,i find that if i keep moving it between the two it goes eventually.It's a pain.

peterban · 30-01-2009, 09:15 AM

Thanks for the replies.
Most of the time over the past couple of weeks it has done it after I come home from work let car sit for about an hour and then go to drive down the shop and it won't start.
Yesterday however it wouldn't start when I went to go to work so it was stone cold.
It still won't start.
The symbol ( circle with an exclamation mark )that goes on and off when trying to start is just the brake light test and so would not be indicating a problem.
The only other thing it could be is the useless Tickford alarm that the LTD's come standard with. I am wondering whether this also has some sort of imobiliser in it.
I did turn it off at the siren but not sure whether that actually turns the system off or just the siren.

broken_suave · 30-01-2009, 10:03 AM

My Futura I6 does the same thing at times. First, try sliding the T-Bar up und down a few times and then back into park. This fixes the problem for me. If thats not the issue, then you can look at other avenues.

Black Knight · 30-01-2009, 10:04 AM

Try checking the connector that goes on to the starter solenoid (a little spade connector)!! Make sure that it is firm. You can check for power to this connector by place a multimeter between this connector and an earth. It should read 12V everytime you turn the key.

Mr Hardware · 30-01-2009, 10:17 AM

I'd be replacing the inhibitor switch on the trans first thing - they're cheap and easy to replace, and at least it'll take the park/neutral thing out of question.
Also, do the fan and radio cut out while trying to start?
I wish i had an LTD

peterban · 30-01-2009, 11:23 AM

I am not ruling out the inhibitor switch but I am wondering why it would decide to start sometimes after it not wanting to start without moving the selector.
I just checked and when I turn the key to try and start it the radio does go off ( although the electric aerial stays up )but the heater fan stays on.
I will check that small wire as that seems a logical place to start tracing the problem.
I guess if there is no power there then the inhibitor switch will be next.
This is the first time the LTD has let me down with any major problem other than the a/c. At least I have been home in every instance when it won't start.

Thanks for the help

Dauphin · 30-01-2009, 12:35 PM

Mine has started doing something similar the past few months. About once every ten starts (haven't really counted) it does nothing when I turn the key. Then the second turn of the key always starts it.

peterban · 30-01-2009, 01:13 PM

Mine started off doing that and then if you held the key on for an extra couple of seconds it would start.
Next it wouldn't do anything but if you left it for 30 mins or so then it would start.
Next time it wouldn't start I thought the battery was flat so used a jumper pack and it started normally.
I had battery and charging system checked but no abnormalities were found.
Now it won't start at all.
I have disconnected the battery and tried a reset to no avail.
I can't see the starter motor from above as all the gas gear is in the road so will have to jack the car up when it cools down tonight as I should be able to access the small solenoid wire from underneath.
I unplugged the tickford alarm system and this also made no change.

JC · 30-01-2009, 01:49 PM

I'd say it's a stuck relay perhaps. Maybe the fuel pump relay, as the car won't attempt to start if the fuel pump is not working.

Dauphin · 30-01-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

I'd say it's a stuck relay perhaps. Maybe the fuel pump relay, as the car won't attempt to start if the fuel pump is not working.

I have removed this relay several times to help protect the car from theft and the engine will still crank. Would this still be the case if the relay is stuck so it doesn't work? Eg. a missing relay is the same as one stuck off?

Mr Hardware · 30-01-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

At least I have been home in every instance when it won't start.

Well logically, if being at home is the only consistency in the whole debarcle, it's obviously a fault with your home.

_2:

peterban · 31-01-2009, 10:11 AM

I think I can rule out house problems!!!!
Without doing anything in the heat yesterday I tried to start the LTD this morning and on the third try it started as normal.
I turned it off and tried again and it fired up first go. I did this 5 times and everything went perfectly.
I took the key out of the ignition and then put it back in and now I am back to the same problem.
I think this rules out starter motor, inhibitor switch, battery and alternator.
That leaves ignition switch, BEM or relay.
I think the ignition and BEM are related so I am not sure how to test these.
Should I take it to Ford the next time I get it started or are the auto elecs a better proposition.

NYTEYZ · 31-01-2009, 02:24 PM

might sound stupid but what about the smartlock chip thingy in your key?? could that be causing the issue??

peterban · 31-01-2009, 02:58 PM

Not sure but the smartlock icon goes out on the dash which the book says means that there is not a problem with the system.
I did try leaving the ignition on for 61 minutes which apparently resets all the codes but this did not do anything.
I think it may be a solenoid problem as when I jumpered the starter relay there was no reaction from the starter.
I am not sure whether it is supposed to or not ( see other thread )

Bushbasher · 31-01-2009, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterban

Should I take it to Ford the next time I get it started or are the auto elecs a better proposition.

I'd say avoid any Ford dealer at all costs and go find a reputable auto sparky first. The dealer is only a last desperate resort........ then be ready for multiple visits and don't forget a full wallet, lol........ then again, you might just get lucky and they'll stumble on the problem first time, stumble being the operative work, haha.

Bushbasher

peterban · 01-02-2009, 09:54 AM

Pulled the starter motor out this morning and bench tested it.
Shorting out the terminals makes the starter spin sometimes so I think it is the solenoid only activating intermittently.
I will put another solenoid on and see what happens.
Thanks for all the replies

johnjc16 · 19-12-2009, 11:57 PM

If you get stuck somewhere another thing you can try if the car wont turn over is pull the head lights on a couple of times and then try and start.If you find this works you will probably also find if you do as said above, hold the key on and hit down on the left hand side of the steering wheel on the dash with the palm of your hand will also work.If it does you may find the body control module is on it's way, sometime if this is the case you will find when you lock the car with the remote it will unlock itsself.

frd906 · 20-12-2009, 12:34 AM

bit of a thread mine dont ya think