gtfpvs right of reply to my 2nd accdt post.

gtfpv · 27-09-2005, 12:56 AM

just want to make a point that i wasn't offended at any comments or opinions that were posted on my previous thread regarding my second accident in one week.i imagine sourbastard locked the thread out of the topic going off topic and becoming a debate.
however i would like a right of reply to some posts without critisising anyone as i think lots of points were valid.
1stly someone posted about video evidence not easily attainable . so true.both my accidents in the m5 tunnel and the m4 are probably on camera. and i have requested that the insurance companies involved in both accidentds persue this evidence. the reply is this is not a standard procedure for insurance companies . and the operator owners of the motorway camaras are not obliged to hand over evidence. WHY. maybe KEEPLEFT CAN ANSWER THIS ONE . 2ndly police say they have no reason to pesue the case of the drivers leaving the seen. ONCE AGAIN BLOODY WHY. THIS would be easy.
and 3rdly i drove in the middle lane by instinct in case somethoing is to go wrong i have a wide area of error for evasive action . this may or may not have contributed to my misfortune in this case.
however it probably also saved my life. if it happened in the left lane . it would've definately been a fatality as i slid 200 to 300metres using 2 lanes plus the emergancy lane before coming upon the crash rail on the far left . if i was in the lft lane or the right the car would have rolled at high speed.so , KEEPLEFT not everything is avoidable to everyone.but you must have a very hard job and hats off to you . but the level of service provided by the police and rta and governments and insurance in my 2 cases is lazy and appalling.imagine how i feel there is evidence which may prove my innocence of fault for both incidents . and i am wearing fault for both of them . i'm copping it what else can i do .so if the cameras proved i was at fault in any way what would i lose i am copping it anyway .anyhow i cannot help but think that your on your own these days . as the way it seems is as long as somone is there to blame and no one needs to put any work into investigations etc .all the better.
the tow truck driver was telling me that people dont stop to be witnesses any more and most of the time someone lies through thier teeth to pin someone else or flees the seen.he says he sees it everyday and is losing faith in humanity.he says people don't even have remorse for the deceased anymore and leave people to die or try and blame the deceased just to get out of it. i can say bi have personally witnessed all of this in the last week being left in a vehicle injured myself . and guess who is the one paying for it all. me.

merlin · 27-09-2005, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

1stly someone posted about video evidence not easily attainable . so true.both my accidents in the m5 tunnel and the m4 are probably on camera. and i have requested that the insurance companies involved in both accidentds persue this evidence. the reply is this is not a standard procedure for insurance companies . and the operator owners of the motorway camaras are not obliged to hand over evidence. WHY.

I already answered this - the RTA owns the camera's, they will happily hand over the tape at the request of a POLICE OFFICER. Having said that I am 99% sure that the film is not kept for longer than 48 hours (if it is kept at all)as is SOP for most government agencies.

If you want to have a go at getting that tape you need to contact the POLICE and request that they request the video from the TOC. You can contact the TOC via the regular RTA number.

Dave_au · 27-09-2005, 09:15 AM

Hi mate, hope your better. Quick question - are you sure that the car that hit you pulled over? There must be some evidence of it on the back of your car - paint etc.

hrtrip · 27-09-2005, 09:28 AM

someone pulled a hit and run on my car recently and once again left the scene without leaving me a note or anything. i realise this is nothing compared to what you have gone through but now i have to cop it sweet on the chin as well. why do people do this? hope you are feeling better mate and stay safe.

HRT R.I.P

gtfpv · 27-09-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

I already answered this - the RTA owns the camera's, they will happily hand over the tape at the request of a POLICE OFFICER. Having said that I am 99% sure that the film is not kept for longer than 48 hours (if it is kept at all)as is SOP for most government agencies.

If you want to have a go at getting that tape you need to contact the POLICE and request that they request the video from the TOC. You can contact the TOC via the regular RTA number.

mate isn't this why we pay our taxes to pay the police . isn't this why we pay our tolls to the rta . isn't this why we pay insurance companies to assess who is at fault ' you said it i cannot get the evidence . nobody else will. what more can i do.

gtfpv · 27-09-2005, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Hi mate, hope your better. Quick question - are you sure that the car that hit you pulled over? There must be some evidence of it on the back of your car - paint etc.

the answer to this one is no . i can only assume that the red commodore that went down the embankment had hit me . i only saw the back of the car from where i had stopped after being hit . but there is red paint on the back of the car i was driving .the police never even looked at the car i was driving . i was just informed that no further persuance of the case will proceed . the officer told me this was very unfortunate foor me . but the law gives him no reason to persue the case. its all very well for people on here to say these things but i am trying to do them and i tell you nobody else is .all i can say is that i have had 20 years without incident and never been charged with a criminal offence i was breath testeds at the scene . and have not been charged at either accident . the 1st accident is still under investigation as to who is at fault because the drivers of both the cars made statements to the police.oh and by the way i am finding out that as a civilian i cant collect evidence or persue it without a solicitor or private investigator.

Sourbastard · 27-09-2005, 05:45 PM

Im finding it hard to understand why the police would not persue this matter, as it could have easily have ended in a fatality.

It may be expensive, infact more then your insurance costs, but I would get ahold of a lawyer, and get him to start by drafting a letter to the Police Comissioners Office. I'd be after the bastards if it happened to me, insurance be damned.

I'd also investigate a claim for victims of crime. Get to know your rights quickly, then utilise them.

4.9 EF Futura · 27-09-2005, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

the tow truck driver was telling me that people dont stop to be witnesses any more and most of the time someone lies through thier teeth to pin someone else or flees the seen.he says he sees it everyday and is losing faith in humanity.he says people don't even have remorse for the deceased anymore and leave people to die or try and blame the deceased just to get out of it. i can say bi have personally witnessed all of this in the last week being left in a vehicle injured myself . and guess who is the one paying for it all. me.

Anyone else feel sick to their stomach reading that?

Sounds like you're up and about gtfpv, good news. I'm not suprised about the runaround you are being given - sounds like no one wants to spend the time or money to look into the matter for you. A real shame. Disgusting how the person responsible is out driving around.

Sourbastard makes a good point - victims of crime compo is there for a reason. Sounds like you have good cause to put in for it.

Keep us informed.

gtfpv · 27-09-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Im finding it hard to understand why the police would not persue this matter, as it could have easily have ended in a fatality.

It may be expensive, infact more then your insurance costs, but I would get ahold of a lawyer, and get him to start by drafting a letter to the Police Comissioners Office. I'd be after the bastards if it happened to me, insurance be damned.

I'd also investigate a claim for victims of crime. Get to know your rights quickly, then utilise them.

thankyou sourbastard. maybe i should ring and find out . but i kinda just hate fighting for everything all the time . i know it sounds like a cop out . but i am still coming to terms with the accident myself and cant think straight .i feel sorry for others that may go through similar situations . i consider myself lucky to have walked away.anyhow it is nice to read what otherrs have to say . and bad to read about others missfortunes . i just hope that somebody finds my posts usefull and becomes prepared for an incidince . as we like top think that we pay our taxes and do our bit . it doesn't always come back.so if anyone has a smash try hard to flag down a witness . disregard the witnesses that have pulled up . they may have ulterior motives . and get number plates and regos straight away before you grab your phone .TRUST NO ONE.

Sourbastard · 27-09-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Anyone else feel sick to their stomach reading that?

Yeah its not good to read is it. On the way home from Melbourne this weekend on the GOR, had a bike rider go zipping past us at high speed, 10 minutes later I passed him lying down infront of a Toyota Carolla on an elbow turn in the forest. There were a heap of people there who had stopped to help, he was in the coma position, was covered in a blanket to keep warm and someone had had the brains to leave his helmet on incase of neck injury. He looked like he was being taken care of well, so we continued home.

Yesterday found out from Casper that the bloke had died.

On the same trip home this time on the SA side of the border, came across a van that was embedded in a tree. It looked odd to be left there, so we stopped and I checked it out incase there was anyone inside.

I cant imagine how many people passed by that day and didnt even notice it buried in bush. Or didnt care.

Black XR6 · 27-09-2005, 07:13 PM

From what I know they say to leave the helmet on incase of severe head injury. The helmet may be all that is holding the head together. Neck injury would be another though. Its best just to leave the helmet on.

Keepleft · 27-09-2005, 08:07 PM

GTFPV wrote: "just want to make a point that i wasn't offended at any comments or opinions that were posted on my previous thread regarding my second accident in one week"

Yup, good man, good shoulders. (Not a come-on lol)...

"1stly someone posted about video evidence not easily attainable. WHY. maybe KEEPLEFT CAN ANSWER THIS ONE".

This is answered in this thread by another poster primarily, but you should firstly make direct contact, RTA control the road cameras at the TMC. legal request can be made but you have a time issue.

"2ndly police say they have no reason to pesue the case of the drivers leaving the seen. ONCE AGAIN BLOODY WHY".

Have they given you a reason? Do they think your not quite up front? If so, you might like to further discuss this.

Some advise to always carry a disposable camera, that sort of thing.

"and 3rdly i drove in the middle lane by instinct in case somethoing is to go wrong i have a wide area of error for evasive action . this may or may not have contributed to my misfortune in this case".

This ties in with text further below, and also highlights ONLY a 'forward' view of 'potential' opinion, AND didn't do you any good. But understand, - you were by your own account impacted when in the middle, In my text as to 'keeping left', you will be aware that a sizeable portion of folk keep-middle and that therefore you can reasonably expect hoons and drunken MP's to wither around those middle and right lanes, if you follow . . . IF a pair of dragging hoons come-up on a middle lane driver, they will very often 'dither' on approach, sometimes unsure of the middle lane driver's actions, until they realise it is too late in that the middle lane driver will stay put.

A contributing factor here is the 'illegality' of their drag racing action, the speed this behaviour naturally involves; AND ardrenalin, which can lead one to make a mistake. This does not apply to the same extent IF a mon-involved driver is keeping left, and the draggers recognise (as would be expected) overall domestic road lane discipline is better, as in say Germany or Hong Kong.

Illegal drag racing is totally different in its overall dynamics, than say a driver who might 'drive fast' at the same or similar speed, alone. One must always be smooth when on a freeway, full indicators, mirrors etc and so on.

"however it probably also saved my life. if it happened in the left lane . it would've definately been a fatality".

IF you were hit whilst in that lane squire, you were not.

"as i slid 200 to 300metres using 2 lanes plus the emergancy lane before coming upon the crash rail on the far left".

IF I were on scene at the time, I could tell you exactly how far you went, if your tyre pressures were under or over pressured or if your wheel alignment was to spec, and heaps more that will fill this board in total, seriously..... Referencing 200 or 300 mtres as a 'slide' indicates various high speeds, remember too 'surface and adhesion come into play along with a whole multitude of factors. Rememeber that at 100km/h your moving at 28 metres per second.

Many people miss-judge distance, location, and without a speedo - 'speed'.

"If i was in the lft lane or the right the car would have rolled at high speed."

GTFPVS, you need to bear in mind here that if you were in the left lane, that for most part your only 2./0 - 3.0metres from the left barrier, or road mound. This measure represents a standard freeway emergency lane width, the momentum variable can be less, not greater than if you then impact having arrived from the centre lane. The right shoulder is 0.5 metres wide with some stretches 'hard-up' against the median barrier.

Now, what would have happened by way of health and your vehicular result IF you were hit behind, whilst in the left lane, all depends on the impact angle, speeds involved by all, the make of the vehicle (or vehicles) so impacting.

Had you been sent into the guardrail barrier on the left @ 3.0 metres by way of design, remember 'distance' as applied when in the elft lane, PLUS allowing for forward motion travel, any number of movements of your car would have taken place, little chance though in existing overall crash history that you'd be rolled, the steel guardrail and wire-rope barriers are designed to 'take the impact' and absorb and disspiate the energy.

Jersey on the other hand, has very little give and its use is restricted to particular locations. This will send you further with a large grion on your face. It's a wonderful feeling!!!

"KEEPLEFT not everything is avoidable to everyone".

Absolutely not, BUT some of us DO make solid effort at reducing and eliminating much, - by way of road trauma AND its ongoing national costs in insurance and government coffers. In the end, we all pay for each event.

"but you must have a very hard job and hats off to you".

It is hard dealing with SOME Australian public Servants AND their academic consultants, many of whom are devoid of 'real-world' realities, but are otherwise 'nice people' who just have difficulty in getting their views aired effectively. . . . Some are just bludgers, others plain loopy I'm afraid.

"but the level of service provided by the police and rta and governments and insurance in my 2 cases is lazy and appalling".

Each is a different 'body' and responsible in 'management' for itself. STATE servants however are financially managed by the government of the day, and this is where you should direct your grieviances either at election time OR in writing. PRIVATE Industry ditto, but be aware that ALL industry involved in road transport,- lobby hard government MP's AND agencies direct, OR through 'collective bodies'. Some certifiable lunatics in this transport industry group too I might add. SOMEWHERE there is a balance, it might be out of kilter, but....

"imagine how i feel there is evidence which may prove my innocence of fault for both incidents . and i am wearing fault for both of them.

IN which case, as you now recognise, to date is that 'the evidence' is invisible those who need to see it. You need to find SOMEONE to verify your case, or at least try. At the very least, 'stick to your story' solidly.

The people stopped and checked on you, as is required, they should not have left the scene however. It's a fine legal line which they or you could play in court. See the link at the bottom, refer to 'Crashes' in the RTA link.

"i'm copping it what else can i do".

By offloading stress as your doing AND purchase a Euro warning triangle for your car AND that of the borrowed one:-) Might save their lives one day....

"so if the cameras proved I was at fault in any way, what would i lose i am copping it anyway".

Camera footgae may or may not prove fault, but may on the other hand in law, find what we call 'contributory negligence'.

"anyhow i cannot help but think that your on your own these days".

In some respects we are, and that is why one must be prepared 'just in case', take on board the idea for triangles, a camera etc. Most insurance providers tell you "DO NOT ADMIT FAULT" regardless. This is required. You DO however swap details. Again, download the 'Road Users Handbook', see my link to another thread listed at the bottom to do this. NOTE and read fully the freeway lane use discussion.

The world is further headed for harmonisation in road traffic matters.

"as the way it seems is as long as somone is there to blame and no one needs to put any work into investigations etc. all the better".

The only time in Australia you get 'serious invesigation' at road crashes is at, well, 'serious crashes' where folk are seriously injured, or where death is a possibility or people are killed. For the 120 thousand road crashes locally each year in NSW to be attended by professional crash investigators, NO government can afford that.

"the tow truck driver was telling me that people dont stop to be witnesses any more and most of the time someone lies through thier teeth to pin someone else or flees the scene. He says he sees it everyday and is losing faith in humanity. He says people don't even have remorse for the deceased anymore and leave people to die or try and blame the deceased just to get out of it. i can say bi have personally witnessed all of this in the last week being left in a vehicle injured myself . and guess who is the one paying for it all. Me".

AND this is perhaps a true reflection on society to date, particularly relates to the 'me' generation, where the reality-TV like 'individual' is supreme above all.

It is my personal view that Western European powers, the Unites States in particular, Australia, the UK, and other EU nations have been under long term disintegration by way of 'attack', primarily through EDUCATION. This impacts ALL long term behaviour and civility as each generation departs school.

A very complex issue, and not recognised by many 'modern teachers' who simply know not any better. Much of what is taught is meaningless, it is meant to be that way. Some refer to it as 'dumbing down', but it's far more involved than just that.

Me? I study and prefer the 'old way' as say taught prior to 1899 in North America. You need only study these high school texts to see how far back we've been thrown in modern times. Modern pupils wouldn't stand a chance frankly if one were to attempt 'an old' test, regardless the subject.

NOW, take this link (and the TWO provided within) goto and read my last big post and you will see 'why' I target lane use. Take your time.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...t=22219&page=2

gtfpv · 27-09-2005, 08:48 PM

mate where were you on sunday morning at 5.30 am . you didn't happen to be driving a red late model commodore eastbound on the M4 buy any chance now "KEEPLEFT" . WERE YOU?????

pepsimax · 27-09-2005, 08:50 PM

i have seen first hand what happens when a motor cyclist's head falls apart when a no brainer takes the helmet off.

not nice at all..

Keepleft · 27-09-2005, 09:01 PM

Deesun wrote: "mate where were you on sunday morning at 5.30 am . you didn't happen to be driving a red late model commodore eastbound on the M4 buy any chance now "KEEPLEFT" . WERE YOU".

Be assured, I do NOT drive one of those AND NEVER a car in RED, Sheesh, the colour fades under our sun!! AND I hate Sydney and generally try very hard at avoiding the place, I DO like the BM's and deep caving.

I AM very serious in my response however, please read and re read that other thread link as provided too.

PEPSIMAX - If you'd like to see rather plain and tired 'photgraphs' of car, war footage and what happens to the human body in a disaster, visit www.ogrish.com Video too. It will seem familiar to your experience (black humour). Those of you not emotionally strong, don't!

I've been subject to this stuff since a kid, here and overseas by way of family experience. Emergency personnel will relate the joy.

Sourbastard · 28-09-2005, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

mate where were you on sunday morning at 5.30 am . you didn't happen to be driving a red late model commodore eastbound on the M4 buy any chance now "KEEPLEFT" . WERE YOU?????

No. This is his current vehicle.

zetec · 28-09-2005, 11:42 AM

LOL are those the european standard safety triangles sourbastard or the dodgy American ones?

Sourbastard · 28-09-2005, 11:49 AM

What Safety Triangles? I didnt see one. Did you?

MITCHAY · 28-09-2005, 12:04 PM

LMFAO. Sure it has enough triangles on it though. Its only got 14, maybe it should have 20 just to be extra safe.

gtfpv · 28-09-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

No. This is his current vehicle.

LMFAO . THAT IS JUST THE BEST LAUGH I' HAVE HAD IN DAYS .

harpsta · 28-09-2005, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Yeah its not good to read is it. On the way home from Melbourne this weekend on the GOR, had a bike rider go zipping past us at high speed, 10 minutes later I passed him lying down infront of a Toyota Carolla on an elbow turn in the forest. There were a heap of people there who had stopped to help, he was in the coma position, was covered in a blanket to keep warm and someone had had the brains to leave his helmet on incase of neck injury. He looked like he was being taken care of well, so we continued home.

Yesterday found out from Casper that the bloke had died.

On the same trip home this time on the SA side of the border, came across a van that was embedded in a tree. It looked odd to be left there, so we stopped and I checked it out incase there was anyone inside.

I cant imagine how many people passed by that day and didnt even notice it buried in bush. Or didnt care.

That young man was a friend of mine. A tradgic loss, he lived with one of my best mates. I am still in shock and it scares me to think about it. He was only 23 years old.

Please be carefull on the roads, our lives are fleeting and can be snapped away from us in a second.

Keepleft · 28-09-2005, 11:59 PM

Sorry to hear that Harpsta.

All adds more fuel to government agencies seeking ever growing control of on speed, by the evidence of it in this case.

(Often missing out other contributing factors in concentrating so).

Take the hint, be prepared, get forty bucks and buy a triangle:-)

and what ever else you'd like to add to your kit.

Nice car Sour btw.....

Ya'll get one too.

Biggoggs · 29-09-2005, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

No. This is his current vehicle.

rofl

btw, you should probably take off the rider's helmet if they aren't breathing or don't have blood circulation. It's like the argument of not moving someone from a wrecked car- broken bones/cuts take second place to death if you don't perform EAR/CPR.

btw, 200 metres is a long way- what sort of tyres do you have?

gtfpv · 30-09-2005, 10:06 PM

i assume 200 metres it was more like 150 metres. but i did not hit the brakes . it did feel like i was sliding forever and the car felt like it done 3 full spins but i would say it done at least 2 . it had standard tyres for a laser . which makes me think . if they were too wide it might have rolled.